What began as a pipe dream for a small town boy from Fayetteville, Georgia, became a reality after small gigs and a restaurant job were his only source of income once he hit the Nashville streets. It was a long way from his origin and work as a behavioral therapist for children with autism, but songwriting felt like a natural extension as he was surrounded by Poets like his grandmother and a deep appreciation for traditional country music. Last week we sat down with Zach John King in anticipation of his debut album, “It’s What You Get.” ZJK explains that this album is a testament to his identity and a project that will move the country sound forward by meshing the attributes of music and his life that inspired him to pursue a career in the first place.
CC: Thanks so much for joining us. I figured I’d let you introduce yourself a little.
Zach: Yeah, I’m Zach John King. Born and raised in Fayetteville, Georgia. It’s my debut album, and I think if one thing had to be boiled down to explain what I want people to hear from it, I’d say it’s my debut, and I want it to be a full look at who I am. From where I’m from, what I stand for, the good stuff, the bad stuff, I want it all laid out. I was super honest and vulnerable with a lot of these songs, and super intentional; there’s not a single song on the album that was filler, that felt like we had to get another one in there. I just want people to hear it and know more about me, and then put themselves in my shoes, because I think that’s what’s going to happen with a lot of these songs. People are going to relate to a bunch of them because they grew up how I grew up; whether you’re from Georgia or the West Coast, it doesn’t really matter.
CC: No, you’re certainly right. I was going to say, “Backwoods” is one of my favorite songs on the album, and it’s funny, because I’ve never been in the backwoods at all. But I feel like I have, or I at least want to.
Zach: That’s all I care about, that it feels like you’re there listening to it. That’s what I want.
CC: Right, exactly. And to that end, I know you’ve called this album a true reflection of who you are, the good parts and the bad parts. And I think in previous interviews you’ve mentioned that same instinct is what made “Wannabe Cowboy” work, and what made it your breakout single. But now you’re writing with more and more people in the Nashville music industry, a full team, a label, and this is a 20- track album. Was it harder to protect that same rawness you had writing “Wannabe Cowboy,” now that you’ve got that infrastructure behind you?
Zach: Honestly, in a funny way, I think it’s easier. I tried to build a team of people I enjoyed writing with, people who knew who I was before I even stepped in the door. That gave me help explaining it a little better. There were certainly moments where you’re halfway through a song with a really popular writer, and he thinks you’re going for the next pop radio hit, and that’s fine; that’s going to happen. But most of the people I love writing with are people who let me tell my story the way I want to tell it, and help me do it. So it got easier. Now that the album’s done and people will get to hear it, there’s no more worry for me about whether I “have this sound” or whether I’m chasing something different. I feel more confident in what I do than I ever have. That took a minute, a lot of trial and error. But it’s easier to be authentic now because I’ve got people around me who support it and help me do it.
CC: That’s really awesome. I love the crew you brought in for the writing process, Sasha Sloan, Seth Ennis, writers I don’t think get enough credit across Nashville. They span all kinds of sounds and production styles. Sasha’s on “How to Not Lose You” and a couple others; you’ve got Rhett Atkins on “Back Roads” and “Get to Drinkin’,” Lawton on “Space,” Pendergrass, Seth Ennis, Josh Kerr, and Topher Brown, who’s been writing for Carter Faith for a while now. How’d you decide who to bring in on which song, and do you think certain collaborators pulled out different sides of you, or different methods of storytelling?
Zach: Instead of picking writers to write specific songs, it was almost like I got specific songs because of the writers I was with. Our approach was, I was writing for a season before touring picked up, five days a week, nonstop, with anybody I could, all in an effort to find try and find the thing: writing a great song I loved, writing one I didn’t, figuring out who I wanted to write with next week and who I didn’t, you need to do all of that. For me it was really a culmination of writing enough songs to go back through the catalog and say, “Hey, this feels like me.” Once we had all the songs that felt like me, and knew we were making a record, it became: what do we have, what do we not have? There were stretches where we had five or six breakup songs and not a single lifestyle song, or not a single love song, or not a single slow song, so we’d fill in those gaps with people. By the end of that process, it was about picking camps of people I knew I could get a particular sound with, and now I know who those people are. Sasha is insane at melody; I’m constantly deferring to her on melodic structure. Then I’ve got people like Rhett Atkins, Josh Miller, and Chris Tompkins, who come from where I come from, and they can put unique words around something like fishing, which has been talked about in country music a million different ways, and find a cooler way to say it. That’s what’s fun about it: I know who these people are, and I’m comfortable enough to know what I’m going to get in a room. It naturally happened, and hopefully once I start writing again, I know those camps.
CC: Was it a similar experience with “Chopping Wood”? You’ve got Brent Cobb, who’s written some great songs for other people too, though I don’t think he was a co-writer on this one. How did that process play into how this song came together?
Zach: There wasn’t a single feature on this record that we wrote to have a feature on. Truly, there was no effort to write a duet or a version for some other artist. We wrote songs that I loved, that felt great whether they were sung just by me or with somebody else. Our process was picking people who were going to elevate the song. I didn’t want this album to have features just to get a song to stream higher; I didn’t want any of that. It was really just: does it complement the song, does it elevate the song? For “Chopping Wood” specifically, I’d had that song written for a year and a half. I knew I wanted it on the album, and a lot of the musical inspiration came from Brent. I’m such a huge fan of him; he might be my favorite country artist, truly. Then my drummer, on the road one day, said, “What if Brent was on ‘Chopping Wood’?” I thought that was a crazy idea, and sure enough, he graciously said yes. That was the process with all these features; the Brooks & Dunn feature was the same way. The song was done, I got to know them, huge fans obviously, felt like it was the right fit for both of us, and they said yes. It just goes down the list.
CC: Your comment about the features being unrelated to the traction an artist has is intriguing because your features stem from more traditionalist country artists compared to where you fall in the country subgenres. My guess would be that these were decisions to expand that listenership, seeing as there’s a lot of discourse between country purists versus the modern country listeners. Your own sound leans into that pop-country production, or the “indie-pop pulse,” which is something that’s been more resisted over the last 10 years. That said, purists who may not accept your style may also be ignorant of your background: you grew up on Patsy Cline and George Jones, and you carry the iconography of what it means to be a country kid: hunting, fishing, etc. So I am interested to hear what you think defines country music at its core, and how you’ve reflected that in your own music? Is it instrumentation, storytelling, where you’re from?
Zach: That’s a great question. Everybody’s been debating what’s country and what’s not forever. Brooks & Dunn, when I got coffee with them, the first thing they told me was that the pushback they got on “Boot Scootin’ Boogie” was that it was too rock and roll, not country enough. It’s a never-ending issue if you’re trying to move a sound forward, and that’s maybe what I’m trying to do. Yes, I grew up on traditional country; it’s in my blood, my DNA. I also grew up on indie rock, alternative rock, and I love pop music, I love rap, I love it all. My whole thing was to do what I do uniquely and try to move a sound forward. So at this point, if people want to say it’s not country enough because it’s too clean or whatever, go for it. I think what makes country music, country music, is the storytelling. I think it’s the best genre on the planet for communicating honest, genuine storytelling, and that’s all I try to do. I write exactly about my life, my experiences, where I’m from, and how I was raised. I’ve stopped trying to chase what I think people want, or the direction I think people want to go. At this point, I’m just making something I love, and I am what you get; you like it, or you don’t. I’ve stopped caring a little bit about that.
CC: That’s great, and people are going to follow along regardless of where you go. People forget that at some point Elvis Presley was considered country.
Zach: Exactly, it’s an age-old issue. When there’s a new sound being introduced, people want to hold onto tradition, and I love tradition too. But at the end of the day, tradition will die out if there aren’t people continuing the progress of what’s being created.
CC: I absolutely agree, and I’m going to pivot slightly towards how these new sounds you’re speaking of shape your upcoming record, “I’m What You Get.” “What I’m Giving Up,” is a beautiful song off the new record, and you lean into a different side of your vocals than you have previously in your discography. Do you think that’s representative of skills you had to work on for this album, or was this range an aspect of your capabilities previously?
Zach: I definitely had to work on it. That took a whole season of maybe even pushing my vocals too hard: oversinging, putting more energy in there because I thought people wanted more energy. What I’ve learned through writing and recording a ton of songs is that there’s a time and a place for breathing room in my music, and that’s something I got to do with that song. A lot of that comes from it being an album; songs don’t all have to be singles, or these soundbites that go viral. It can really be a piece of art. That was a really cool process for me, because even a year earlier, I don’t think I would’ve had that type of song in me; I probably would’ve said it was boring, or too slow. Now I’m learning that breathing room is really important, especially for an album.
CC: Especially important for a 20-track album, for sure. It’s a lovely song.
Zach: I think it’s a track where you don’t have to chase the next hit; you can really get vulnerable and honest. And that song is literally about me wondering if this whole thing’s worth it.
CC: It’s sung to your wife, I believe, right?
Zach: Kind of, yes.
CC: So then, was there a specific moment that led to this song? I think you can obviously question whether a career like this is worth all of the sacrifices on a consistent basis, but I believe there are moments or a final straw that can bring stories like this one out.
Zach: Yeah, there was. I’ve used this particular example in a couple of songs, but I was in Europe last year, and my niece was getting baptized back in Chattanooga. I was in Berlin, and I was FaceTiming my family who was at the church service, while I was at a hotel gym in Berlin, at midnight. I was there for music, and I was there because I wanted to play shows, but I remember thinking, “What are we doing? I’m missing all of this.” So when I got down to really writing, that’s what I pulled from, and it bled into the rest of the song: is it supposed to be this way, and is what I’m sacrificing.
CC: To wrap up, you’re two years out from “Wannabe Cowboy,” a time when you were completely independent. What do you think you’ve gained by having more hands in your projects, and is there anything you miss about being an independent artist?
Zach: Mmmm, I think having more hands in it, you can accelerate bringing an idea to life. That’s fulfilling, because it can go from a pipe dream of an idea- perfect example: all these features were pipe dreams- to actually happening. So much of that falls on the teams around me being able to help. I have to credit my management team, my label, my agency for making this a full-time job. When I started this, it was not a full-time job; I was still waiting tables, still doing side hustles to pay the bills. The team around me is absolutely to be credited for that. I think the only thing I miss as an independent artist, and it’s a double-edged sword, is that you’re not obligated to it, because there’s nobody depending on you to do that.
CC: You didn’t have to miss your niece’s baptism, for example.
Zach: *laughs* Yes, it wasn’t like “you have to do this”; now it’s what I want, it’s the thing I’ve dreamed about since I was a kid. But you do have people depending on you. I have bandmates whose income is dependent on my success. I have teams of people behind me who will literally get fired if I don’t perform; that’s just how it works. That can be daunting to think about, but I try not to let it motivate my plans or my actions too much.
CC: Yes, nothing’s guaranteed in the music industry, but the second you take your foot off the gas, you’re going nowhere, and you’re at a complete standstill.
Zach: Yes, you’re going nowhere.
CC: I mean, even if you’re moving, you don’t know if you’re going to get anywhere, but you’re sure as hell not going anywhere if you take your foot off the gas. Just out of curiosity, out of all 20 tracks, which are you most proud of, and why?
Zach: I’ve been saying the title track, for me, “I’m What You Get.” Lyrically, it’s probably my proudest songwriting. It’s got so much cool color in there, descriptors and words you haven’t heard, the melodies, the cadence; I’m really proud of all of that, and the meaning behind it too. From a vulnerability standpoint, probably “What I’m Giving Up.” That one is as honest as it gets. Ending the record on a question mark was intentional; I wanted people to sit there and chew on it. I think people, even outside of music, can ask themselves that question all the time: is this thing I’m committing to worth what I’m sacrificing? I did that intentionally, and put that outro on it to give people time to think about it. I’m really proud of those two.
CC: Absolutely, to your last point, I think it is a universal feeling. I mean, every artist does that; off the top of my head, Morgan Wallen had “Living the Dream.” My last question for you today is, who’s on your rotation right now, music-wise? Is there anyone that would surprise people?
Zach: There are a few. Right now I’ve been ripping Kirk Franklin lately on the road, just old gospel from 2005; that’s perfect. I was on a Bad Bunny kick for a long time. Glen Campbell’s been in there a lot, Eddie Rabbitt. I’ve been listening to Ethel Cain; she’s amazing. And I’ve been listening to Jon Bellion. So, a very eclectic mix. And then Ralph Stanley, I always go back to bluegrass at the end of the day; it’s just a baseline for me.
